Sweetwater recently sat down with industry giant Hartley Peavey. We discussed his past, present, and future — from his initial musical inspiration to building his first guitar amplifier to the state of the industry today.

Hartley grew up in Meridian, Mississippi. He came of age at the perfect time, witnessing the birth of rock ‘n’ roll itself. Hartley’s father was an old-school music retailer, and since Hartley was raised in a music shop, he learned the business inside and out. But while this insider’s knowledge may have pointed Hartley in a general direction, it was rock ‘n’ roll that really fueled his passion, setting him on the path that would one day dominate his destiny. This is his story, in his own words.

The Birth of Rock ‘n’ Roll
Rock ‘n’ roll started near the Mississippi River in the mid-’50s. It kind of exploded, and rock ‘n’ roll was everywhere. Alan Freed and rock ‘n’ roll were a really exciting thing, but by the early ’60s, before Motown exploded, American music had gotten to be what I call “little girl music” — with all the “pretty boy” singers — Frankie Avalon and all those people. We had such toe-tappers as “It’s My Party (and I’ll Cry if I Want To).” Kids didn’t want that, they wanted something they could dance to. Meanwhile, the Brits had been very influenced by this seminal American rock ‘n’ roll, and they “repackaged” it and sold it to us again. It exploded bigger this time, with the Beatles and Rolling Stones; you know all the names.

In 1957, I went to see a concert with Bo Diddley, and I decided that I wanted to be a guitar player. I went back and told my dad, “I want to be a guitar player.” He said, “Well son, you don’t want to do that. Guitar players don’t pay their bills, blah blah blah blah blah.” I guess, in a way, I should have listened to him, but I wanted to be a guitar player anyway. He was an old-style music dealer, and he had guitars, so I asked him to give me a guitar, and he said, “No, I’ll get you some lessons, and if you learn how to play, I’ll consider buying you a guitar.” I thought that was pretty selfish on his part, but I see now, he was kind of teaching me to work. Long story short, because he wouldn’t give me a guitar or an amplifier, I ended up building my own. A friend of mine saw it and said, “If you build me an amp like that, I’ll give you some lessons.” I did and he did, so I started playing guitar, albeit not very well. I did that for about eight years, and managed to get good enough to get into a couple of little college bands, and we played essentially for $50 and all the beer we could drink.

…because he wouldn’t give me a guitar or an amplifier, I ended up building my own.

A strange thing started happening. The first group I was with, like any other group, needed gear, and I built it. When I was in high school, I took every shop course I could at a local trade school, Ross Collins Vocational School. I took four semesters of machine shop, basic and advanced electrical shop, sheet metal, mechanical drawing, and two semesters of radio/electronics. In fact, I took every course that they offered except welding, refrigeration, and auto shop. I would have taken those courses if there had been time. So that’s how I got into building things and playing music.

Every time I’d build all the gear that my bands needed, they would kick me out. The first time that happened, I said, “Well, you know; things happen.” The second time it happened, I thought, “That was an unusual run of bad luck.” The third time it happened, I had to look in the mirror and be honest with myself. I thought, “Well, it looks like you’re not going to be a rock star, so what are you going to do for the rest of your life?” This was about 1963, ’64 — the British Invasion was in full force, and every musician that I’d ever met up until that time said, “I wish somebody would build good gear at a fair price.” I thought that was a pretty good idea, so when I graduated from college in 1965, I started Peavey. Actually, I started in 1964, and my first patent was in 1964. My objective was simple: I wanted to be the best. By definition, you can’t be the best unless you’re different. Peavey has always been different!

The Age of the Conglomerates
In the mid-’60s, many big conglomerates bought into the music and sound business — Gulf and Western (Paramount Pictures) bought a company in New York that was the Marshall distributor — a company called Univox. And CBS bought Fender. Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV), which made airplanes for the navy, bought Altec Lansing. And Sara Lee bought JBL. In many cases, the prices doubled and the quality went down. Most companies jumped into the music and sound business, but none of them stayed, because it would appear that their only passion was for money — they apparently assumed that the music and sound business was just like selling home appliances or automobiles, and I’ve always thought that it’s not that way at all!

After 53 years at Peavey, I am still here at work every day.

I am amazed that lots of players think that because a company has a famous name, and it’s been around for years and years, that it’s the same company. I absolutely do not think that that idea is representative of the facts. For instance, if tomorrow everybody at Sweetwater left, and everybody was replaced with new faces, Sweetwater wouldn’t be the same company. Maybe the name’s the same, but it’s not the same company! That’s what’s happened with a lot of famous-name companies. The founders, the originators, the people that had the passion in their hearts, their lives wrapped up in that business — they’re gone! In many cases I think that it shows.

That’s something that folks should be aware of. After 53 years at Peavey, I am still here at work every day. Peavey is my passion and my life, and we think that is one of the things that’s very different about Peavey. Like Coca-Cola, Peavey is “the real thing.” The guy who started the company, the guy whose name is on the door, is still active, hands on, every single day. And I’m proud of that 53-year legacy.

Passion Is the Key to Success
I know this, and Chuck Surack, Sweetwater’s Founder and CEO, knows this, and he’s tried to instill this in all of his people! Music is all about passion! The fact is, music is one of the few things that people will fight you over. There’s politics, religion, romance, and maybe a few other things, but if you happen to be (hypothetically) a country music fan, and you’re sitting next to somebody that says, “That country music is nothing but a bunch of hicks,” you kind of want to give him a knuckle sandwich. One of the reasons that all those conglomerates failed in our business is that the only passion they had was for profit. There’s nothing wrong with making a profit, but if that’s your only passion, you’re probably not going to be successful — at least not in the music and sound business.

There’s nothing wrong with making a profit, but if that’s your only passion, you’re probably not going to be successful…

Passion is a common denominator at Sweetwater and at Peavey, because both companies have it in abundance. I felt that very strongly when the Sweetwater guys came down to Peavey — you guys at Sweetwater are not doing what you’re doing just for the money. You’re doing it for lots of reasons. The passion is what drives you — the passion to be better. Passion to succeed. That’s the same thing with me. I could have quit, sold out, or just left like so many of my competitors have done over the past half century.

The main thing that has kept my interest for all these years is that every day I learn something, and that’s a take home. I’ve done that for 53 years, and I have learned lots of things, and that has been a great learning experience. The downside is, the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know. I’m still at it, still learning, and I hope that’s always the case.

Striving to Be Different (and Better)
Sadly, the music and sound industry tends to have what I call the “cow path mentality,” especially in guitars. How many different ways can you make a famous-name guitar? Some of our friendly competitors offer thousands of variations of the same old thing. Now they’re putting different pickup combinations on their old guitars and calling it “new.” It’s amazing to me that something designed 60 years ago is still state of the art. We feel like doing things a new way. For instance, Peavey is making graphite guitars because that’s new, different, and better. That’s another example of Peavey pushing and daring to be different in order to be better.

You can’t be better unless you’re different.

Peavey does all these kinds of things, and the reason that I’m crazy enough to keep doing things like that is I want to do what people haven’t done. I don’t want to copy; I don’t want to follow. Because there’s too much of that going on. We want to be different. We want to be better! For over 53 years, that’s what Peavey’s been doing. And not only are we trying to build a better “mousetrap,” but we’re trying to sell these innovative products at a fair and reasonable price.

You can’t be better unless you’re different. Sweetwater is a prime example of that. A lot of Sweetwater’s top folks came down to Peavey for a week to visit and participate in our seminars. I was impressed, tremendously impressed, by the fact that Sweetwater’s corporate culture is so similar to ours. Both Sweetwater and Peavey seem to be successful over the long haul.

Members of Sweetwater’s Sales and Marketing teams with Hartley Peavey during a visit to Peavey headquarters in Meridian, MS.

Longevity Through Innovation
One of the things about being here for over a half century is I’ve had the advantage of watching my competitors. I’ve watched what they’ve done that’s bad, and I’ve watched what they’ve done that’s good; and the important thing is I’ve watched all of this and hopefully learned. Experience doesn’t teach you what to do, but if you’re observant, it will certainly show you what not to do. I’ve tried not to do some of the things that some of my friendly competitors have done. Amazingly, some of them have even made the same mistake more than once!

The one who can stay on the pony the longest wins, and I’m lucky enough to have survived on this bucking bronco for 53 years.

It would appear that I’m the last man standing of the “old amplifier guys.” Because of the support of our customers, dealers, and distributors around the world, we’re still here, and we’re still innovating. I’m never satisfied! When you get satisfied, you get lazy; you get complacent. And that’s when somebody comes along and kicks your fanny. I don’t want that to happen to me, because I’ve seen it happen to a lot of people in our business. In business, there are always several “hotshots.” But the test is, how long can they last? I believe business is like a rodeo. The one who can stay on the pony the longest wins, and I’m lucky enough to have survived on this bucking bronco for 53 years.

Peavey continues to innovate and be different. We have won more product awards than just about anybody in our end of the business. We’ve earned over 180 patents worldwide in the last five decades.

Doing It the Way It Should Be Done
I don’t necessarily build what I want to build; I build what the customer wants. Along that line, Peavey does not have a “signature sound.” Some of our competitors do have signature sounds. Peavey does not. We voice an amplifier for the artist we’re building it for, or for the genre that we’re building it for, and not necessarily to have a unique signature sound. All of our amplifiers sound different. Like our Delta Blues is great for classic rock, gospel, country, but not so good for heavy metal. But when you compromise, you end up with something that doesn’t please the most discriminating customers. Conversely, our 6505 is well recognized for metal, but not so much for blues or country players. We don’t like to compromise. And that’s why we voice our amplifiers accordingly. We even use a lot of 15-inch speakers in our guitar amplifiers, because I think they sound better. So did Stevie Ray Vaughan and a number of other great players.

Having a great-performing amplifier is good, but it’s also got to be reliable. When you’re onstage, if your amp goes down, players get their egos offended; they want to blame somebody, and it’s usually the manufacturer of the equipment. We have found whose components we can depend on and whose we can’t. That’s another thing that experience brings to the party.

We’re the only company making guitar amps that actually makes their own speakers! The reason I did that was because the speaker manufacturers wouldn’t listen to me! I went to the so-called premium speaker companies to tell them that my customers were blowing their speakers out. They would give me this condescending speech about how my customers didn’t understand how to use their precision transducers. So I said, “That may be true, but the fact is, if your speaker blows out in a Peavey cabinet, they don’t blame you; they blame me.” In desperation, we designed and made our own speakers. By the way, the speakers that we make have field-replaceable cones. You take out three bolts, put on a new basket/cone assembly, and you’re back in business. Nobody else does that. We do!

Having a great-performing amplifier is good, but it’s also got to be reliable. When you’re onstage, if your amp goes down, players . . . want to blame somebody, and it’s usually the manufacturer of the equipment.

None of our competitors builds speakers like we do because total field replaceability requires much tighter tolerances, which costs more money. Peavey does it that way because that’s the way it should be done. My name is on every product, and I take pride in everything that leaves our factory.

Do You Believe in Magic?
Very little is new in vacuum tubes. It’s not terribly difficult to build a decent, high-priced vacuum tube amplifier, but it’s quite a trick to build a good vacuum tube amp for a reasonable price. I don’t mean cheap — I mean reasonable. One of my frustrations is, guitar players in particular seemingly want to believe in “magic.” In my many, many years (I built my first amp in the winter of 1957), I’ve seen no magic! I’ve looked at thousands of amplifiers from all over the world, and I’ve seen good engineering, bad engineering, good construction, bad construction. But I’ve never, one time, ever seen any “magic”!

Players like to believe that somewhere there’s an old hermit who winds guitar pickups by the light of the moon and soaks them overnight in swamp water to give them “soul.” I guess that’s why they sell for two or three hundred dollars apiece. When you actually look at a pickup, you see several magnets, an ounce or two of copper wire, some bobbins, and a pickup cover. In terms of cost, that’s three or four dollars. So why is that pickup worth hundreds of dollars?

Players like to believe that somewhere there’s an old hermit who winds guitar pickups by the light of the moon and soaks them overnight in swamp water to give them ‘soul.’

The magic is what often drives people, and most pickups are pretty much the same. There is no magic. Magic is what you don’t understand. If you and I were standing out in a parking lot today, and a 747 flew over, we’d say, “Boy, that thing is noisy.” But if we were standing out in a pasture a hundred years ago, and the same airplane flew over, we would think it was magic. And the difference is, back then we wouldn’t have known what it was. But today we do. So today we’d know that there’s no magic.

I’ve always been absolutely shocked and amazed that otherwise reasonably intelligent people can assume that some guy building amplifiers in his basement knows some secret sauce that people who have been doing it for 50 years or more haven’t run across. Every time I go to a NAMM show, I walk around and see people making mistakes that I made 30 or 40 years ago. Oftentimes, they charge three or four times what Peavey charges for similar products.

Music Is Everywhere
We started our export program in 1972. Like I said, music is about passion. And in almost every part of the world, they have their particular kind of music. The Japanese are frantic about their music. And that’s true in most of Europe as well. Music is a universal language, and almost anywhere you go in the world, there’s some kind of music.

Music is a universal language, and almost anywhere you go in the world, there’s some kind of music.

Of course, I’m looking for ways to grow my company, and there are way more people outside the United States than there are inside. That’s why we’ve been at it since 1972. As a matter of fact, we’re probably the only company in the music business that has received the E Star Award from the United States Department of Commerce. The E Award is the major award for excellence in exporting. And once you get the E Award, then you can go up for the E Star Award. Peavey has an E Star Award, and I’m not aware of any other company in the music business that has that. That was quite an honor! The world is a big place, and we want to be a part of it. That’s why we did it.

The Importance of Learning
In my opinion, Sweetwater has probably the best-trained sales people in the industry. That’s saying something! A lot of Sweetwater’s competitors are losing market share because they don’t spend the time, money, and effort on training their people like Sweetwater does. I’ve always felt that the more people know, the better Peavey looks. Because a lot of the goodies we put in our products — unless you’re aware of what the features, advantages, and benefits are — you can’t effectively sell them as well as somebody who does know what kind of features, advantages, and benefits are offered in any particular product.

A lot of Sweetwater’s competitors are losing market share because they don’t spend the time, money, and effort on training their people like Sweetwater does.

I’ve always been impressed with the fact that Sweetwater trains their people, I believe, two hours on Tuesday and two hours on Thursday. That’s four hours every week on product knowledge! That’s probably about 100% more product training than any of Sweetwater’s competitors do. I don’t know of anybody else that does that amount of training for their people. Peavey has participated in that training for several years, and it’s a learning opportunity not only for the folks at Sweetwater, but we learn a lot of stuff from the folks at Sweetwater, too. Just like when Sweetwater came down to Peavey. It was certainly not a one-way street!

Still Learning and Growing
We’re still here, still learning, still growing. I’m here every day. I’m slowing down a little, but I don’t ever want to “quit quit.” I always want to be involved at Peavey. If you were here looking around my office, you’d see guitars, pickups, speakers, amplifiers — it looks kind of like a junk shop, but it’s a working office! And that’s my world. That’s where I live. Why do I do that? Well, frankly, because I care. I’m pretty good at a few things. And, frankly, I’m not very good at a lot of things. What I’ve tried to do is find people that are better than I am at what they do and hire them. I stick to what I do, and I let them do what they do, and it’s a win-win for everybody concerned. So that’s our approach.

…what has kept me interested for all these years is that every single day I get to learn something.

What has kept me interested for all these years is that every single day I get to learn something. After you’ve been at it for a little over 53 years in my case, I have learned a few things! Unfortunately, the downside of that is that the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know. So there’s a lot more for me to learn, and that’s why I’m still here, looking at schematics and patents, and all these kinds of things. Because that’s what I do, it’s my life and has been for 53 years. I am most grateful for my customers, dealers, and distributors’ support that has made all this possible. And as long as the good Lord will let me, I’m going to keep it up.

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